The Intuition Network, A Thinking Allowed Television Underwriter, presents the following transcript from the series Thinking Allowed, Conversations On the Leading Edge of Knowledge and Discovery, with Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove.

THE HEALING JOURNEY Part II: THE PHILOSOPHY OF HEALING with SREE CHAKRAVARTI

  
 JEFFREY MISHLOVE, Ph.D.: Hello and welcome. I'm Jeffrey Mishlove. Today we are going to explore the philosophy of spiritual healing. With me is Sree Chakravarti, author of A Healer's Journey. Sree Ma is a healer from Delhi, India whose work has taken her all over the world. She treats people using an unusual form of vibration that comes through her hand, and she never charges for her work. Welcome, Sree Ma. It's a pleasure to be with you. When I think about you and the work that you do, traveling around the world and healing people without charging them, you've seen so much of the world, from the poor countries of Asia to the wealthy countries of Europe and America. I would think that your work involves not just the healing of people, but in some sense you share a concern for the healing of the world.

SREE CHAKRAVARTI: Yes. Actually, at this stage I feel really the whole world needs the healing -- not from the healer, I think. Anybody working to do some good to mankind must come together, because there is so much disturbance. People are becoming rich in a certain respect with their material comforts, but still something is lacking in them. I don't find peace in them, you know, and especially in America I find the love between husband and wife, especially the love between mother and children. Women have got a very big part in this society now. They're the mother. They're like mother earth, you know. There is no compassion I find in the women in this part of the world. Compassion is missing. There is less giving. It is more or less like the same footing -- what you give you receive, like that. But the mother has got a much bigger part to play, no? And people are so busy earning money, so busy. They feel that they will buy costlier toys for their children, and that they will feel happy, instead of giving their time, their love, sacrificing some part of their life for them, for the husband. Husbands should do the same way -- loving his wife, who is the mother of his children and all that, no? So I find love is taking a very different path now. The material thing has taken so much the place of all the human qualities, are slowly missing. And it's not in America only. I find it's a very sad thing happening in India also. The people are losing their culture, and they are trying to copy others, and in that process they are losing their own identity.

MISHLOVE: It seems everywhere that as cultures become modernized -- we say Westernized, but I suppose ultimately what gets lost is the connection with spiritual values.

CHAKRAVARTI: That's right. And people, when they are progressing and all that, earning so much money, then they feel they have done it. But when there is some sickness or any other problem, then they start blaming God, so suddenly they remember God then. You see? They have lost the contact with the divinity, or God, or the energy, whatever name you may call it. We are losing the contact.

MISHLOVE: You've devoted your life to maintaining that contact, and I have to say one of the really striking things about your work is that you don't accept any payment for it. Many people today who do accept payment say that there's a false dichotomy between spiritual values and material values -- that God is everywhere, even in money, and even in abundance we can find God.

CHAKRAVARTI: Maybe then I am wrong, but I feel that they are so busy making money that they lose all those human qualities in that process. They are less kind, you know. Doctors, I find, are so much interested in money now, that they don't treat their patient as another human being -- sometimes as if they are treating a piece of log. They just do their job, and all that, and they are trying to become more and more efficient. Somebody told me -- I was really hurt; she said, "As soon as the children start growing up, we tell them they have to be smart, they have to earn more money, they have to be brilliant, all those things, rather than teach them all the wonderful qualities side by side." I'm not saying that they should not do that, but still they should understand there is another part of life, you know? And if they understand there is another wonderful side of human beings also, and they should try to pay attention. We see flowers in the garden and all that. Now everybody feels we can do everything, but you cannot produce a flower by any scientific method. And love between a mother and a child is something unique. It is like that with God also. We are his children, and as he has given us so much in plenty, I think our duty also is to show some respect. For example, I find there's no respect for elders now. Elders are sent back to the old people's home. This is very painful for me, you know. And actually most of our wisdom is to come from the elders of the family, and so much knowledge, so much knowing, so much learning used to be through the elders. But that thing is breaking up. In their place all these gadgets have come and all that. So what is happening in that process is that even the parents are not getting so much love from their children -- what in their time they got from their parents, or towards them. The respect and all those things I find are evaporating, you know? They are taking the shape of weakness. Even the mother feels that to give blood to the doctor is a sign of weakness. And there is independence also, I find.

MISHLOVE: Too much independence.

CHAKRAVARTI: Too much independence for everything, no? So what happens? If a child is badly hurt or anything, I think I should sort it out myself; I must not approach anybody. So what happens? In this way our emotions are also getting subdued. Then it becomes very difficult to bring it up.

MISHLOVE: Well, the things that you were saying about the breakdown of the family --

CHAKRAVARTI: It's happening in India also.

MISHLOVE: In many contexts this is a discussion which is raised by people who maintain traditional religious values.

CHAKRAVARTI: That's right. My point is you don't have to be a religious person. But the grandmother and the child -- the grandmother teaches them so much wisdom -- how to face the world, how to do everything perfectly, and in a loving way, in a more different way, rather than that commercial way you see everything on television and learn it by that. I don't have the time to do that sort of thing. It's as if time is running out from everybody's life, so make it up as fast as you can. This is very painful for me, I feel. You are really losing your life in that process, you know. You don't live in the present. All the time you are planning -- how to live better, how to live better. And in that process you are losing touch with the present.

MISHLOVE: And when you lose that contact, that also creates illness, doesn't it?

CHAKRAVARTI: That's right. Our illness, so much of it, has got its part to play with our way of thinking, as people. I do lots of meditation, and I feel that we should even keep a little part of our life to be alone with ourself, if not God -- to understand who we are, what we are, what we have come to this earth for; is there any purpose of my being here or not? This part of the world people are scared to talk of death. That is part of our life, no? It is like changing your clothes. When your clothes get old, you try to change your dress. In our culture we are taught from our childhood that it is like that. Death is nothing frightening. It is a literal changing process. Then what happens? You don't get frightened. Even being sick, they start getting, "Oh my God, I think I'm dying or something." That fear, however you are trying to hide with all this material comfort, it is there very much. But if you really start understanding life, then you will know when the leaves become yellow, then automatically they fall off the tree. Then the new leaves come out. All these examples are in front of us, but still we don't accept this. We feel everything may happen to others, but I'm going to live.

MISHLOVE: Well, do you think all of the busy-ness that we engage ourselves in is a way of avoiding facing the reality of death?

CHAKRAVARTI: Not only death. We are trying to avoid the reality of life.

MISHLOVE: The reality of life?

CHAKRAVARTI: Yes. I feel we are avoiding the reality of life. It's not death. Day-to-day reality also, we try to just be in a hurry, in a hurry, so let it be. Death, we'll think about it later on. So that's what I feel. It is the reality of life also. Then slowly you will understand about God, about your passing away. You will remain on this earth through your children, through your grandchildren. They will pass you; you will be there, all the time. It is a continuous process. We don't take it that way. We feel that as soon as I'm gone, I'm gone. But what about you? You have given that to your child. That is part of you. That's you, again.

MISHLOVE: We live on in others.

CHAKRAVARTI: Yes, that's right. We don't try to, you know. That's what I say the reality of our day-to-day life. Now, more than necessary, we are trying to earn money. What is happening? Ultimately I feel people are frustrated, you know? They are angry with themselves, and they bring it out to others. It is actually we are angry with ourselves. We can't find there is the harmony between the mind and the body; there is no harmony now. It's going two sides. So we are getting lost, getting the connection. So we have to get back to that state, that when we bring back that they are two of the same thing, no? We are trying to make it a separate issue.

MISHLOVE: The mind and the body.

CHAKRAVARTI: But what we are thinking in our mind, the body becomes that. So all this disease in a certain respect has got a big part to play with our thinking process.

MISHLOVE: What I think I hear you saying, it's not affluence or abundance that you are opposing. It's the way we way we make ourselves so busy --

CHAKRAVARTI: That's right.

MISHLOVE: -- that we lose touch with the important things.

CHAKRAVARTI: We don't even enjoy the moonlight, we don't even stand near a flower to see the marvel of God's creation. We don't have time to look at this child smiling, you know, look at all those wonderful things. We don't have time. By the time you realize, you are too late. So too much nervous tension, which is causing, bringing so much sickness, is due to our thinking process. And then what happens? Doctors also just go to the symptoms; they don't go to cause. The whole way of handling life is changing very fast. People ask me, what is my ambition in my life now? I don't desire fame, name; these are nothing to me. I am not interested in anything. My whole ambition now is very shocking for your part of the world -- that I want to die. I have had enough of living. My body is becoming old now. I feel its time to merge with God has come. So I like to live peacefully. I don't have any desire to live very long. It's really a frightening question for you people, but for me death is like waiting for your beloved, that one you are going to meet. My way is that, because for me, unless and until -- I don't know whether I will be able to meet God in this life; I am not a saint, you know. I am just an ordinary person. So I feel that slowly the time is approaching for me, that the time is coming, that the stage, the final drop is coming to me. One should be ready for that. One should not feel the misery of death. Then your time, when it comes, to depart from this body, is much easier, much more peaceful. Because you are going to submerge with another energy, the consciousness, the real one, you know, whatever name you may call it. You are part of the real flame; you are only the flicker. Again you are going to merge. He is the ocean, no? You are just like a drop of water. So there is that thirst in me, that I want to merge with the ocean, from where actually I came. So I want to merge again with that.

MISHLOVE: And you're smiling beautifully when you talk of it, and I know it's not because you are afraid of life.

CHAKRAVARTI: No, I'm not.

MISHLOVE: You're very vivacious. You seem to be enjoying yourself every minute right now.

CHAKRAVARTI: Yes. Because in this process I don't have to lose anything. If I have acquired this gift, then when you have acquired something, then there is a danger of losing it, no? Even the dear ones, we try to hold onto them, OK? Ultimately we lose them, but ultimately we find them in God.

MISHLOVE: Yes.

CHAKRAVARTI: So that is my theory of life. I am not a highly educated person or an academician or anything, but I take life very simply.

MISHLOVE: To return to the subject of healing, you have been healing people for many, many, many years now. Is it this thirst for God, or this connection with God, that is the essence of your healing?

CHAKRAVARTI: Yes. Because when I heal a person, I just immediately feel that he is healing. I am only the glass, not the water. I just thank him, that you have made me an instrument of your work. The thought of God is always every second of my life. I never think that I am doing anything. I remember my husband used to get angry with me sometimes. A simple case comes to me, and they ask, "Will I be all right?" I said, "I don't know the answer. You have to ask God. Because I don't do anything. If He wishes, it will be." My husband told me, "Even the doctors can do; they give them the confidence. Why don't you give them?" I said, "No. Something holds me back. I have got no alternative to say this."

MISHLOVE: But if you focus on God every second of your life --

CHAKRAVARTI: Yes, yes.

MISHLOVE: -- what then is the difference between life and death?

CHAKRAVARTI: That is the thing. That is why, for me, it is just crossing a boundary only. That is why. Even the people who are dying, and all that, if I am near them, I talk to them. They feel there is nothing frightening, you know? Then what happens? They loosen themselves. They don't try to hold on unnecessarily to their life. "Take it easy," I tell them, because so many times I am called. People are dying. Doctors have given up all hope. But the family members, they want me there. Sometimes it's very painful. But I like to. Whatever I have got, in whatever way, maybe sometimes by talking to them or consoling them and all that. And I have seen my touch -- I don't know what is there in that -- people feel immediately opened up -- anybody. Whoever may say, you know, a very strong person. But my touch immediately, as if they become like a child to its mother. That sort of feeling. And I also feel that way. My own idea of married life was to become a mother -- to become a mother not only of one, to become a mother of lots of children. That was really the purpose of my marriage. Otherwise, prior to that, I never wanted to marry. Somehow I wanted to be a medical doctor, which my father didn't encourage. So when I married, when I fell in love and married, my whole thinking process changed. But my main idea was to become a mother.

MISHLOVE: In a way, although I don't believe you've had children --

CHAKRAVARTI: I had. I lost my son. But then I have become mother of so many nationalities, so many people.

MISHLOVE: It's as if you're a mother to the world.

CHAKRAVARTI: That is what I feel in that way. So I feel it's my duty also to let people know there are lots of wonderful things in this life, rather than just -- only earning money is not really the answer for all the earth. But the whole problem -- our young generation from India, they are seeing all this material comfort. But one thing I like here also, the efficiency of people.

MISHLOVE: The efficiency.

CHAKRAVARTI: Yes, they are so efficient. Whatever they do, there is so much dedication in that, you know. That part they don't understand from outside. They just are coming, just to follow them like mad, you know. So I tell them that these two things must mingle. People here are very efficient. They are good in every respect, whatever work they're doing. But spiritualism is less in them. In our part, the young generation, they are coming here for this part, but they don't really understand what wonderful qualities also this part has to offer. They have to be very efficient, correcting everything, and all that. Ultimately these two have to mingle. That is why now science and spiritualism must become one, mingle -- both to get the best of the other. That is my feeling. I may be wrong.

MISHLOVE: Well, do you feel that when you focus on God every second of your life, that for people who wish to cultivate healing, who wish to follow your instructions, that that might be, if you were to give a person a simple --

CHAKRAVARTI: I will say that suppose you don't believe in God, no? OK, you should try to do meditation. Try to make the inner journey now.

MISHLOVE: The inner journey.

CHAKRAVARTI: The inner journey. The time has come to make the inner journey. You must go into yourself, to understand your own self.

MISHLOVE: Whether or not you believe in any vision of God.

CHAKRAVARTI: In God or anything. Don't anything, don't bother. But the time has come to make the inner journey. Inside us, what is there? Who are we? We must understand ourself first, no? Then only I can understand another one -- instead of going outwards. But its time has come, to make peace with ourselves, to make that journey, and whatever name you may call it. Scientists call it energy. The self-realized soul feels, "I am God. God is in me. I am in God." And ordinary people, they go to church, temple, mosque. But the inner journey is a must. The time has come, that running outside, we have to enter into ourselves. I don't ask people to just go to church or God or anything, but they must understand who they are. This is very important -- the inner journey. For this reason people do meditation. It is a real inner journey. You should, when you are completely quiet, when your eyes are not looking outside anything, then only your inner vision opens up. Then only you see the inner light in you, what a wonderful thing you are yourself. And then I see in that process, you can become real, one full person yourself. This is very important.

MISHLOVE: Yes. So really you're arguing -- you're not arguing; you are speaking poetically of the fullness of humanity within us.

CHAKRAVARTI: We are not developing that.

MISHLOVE: We don't have to be concerned about losing God in our busy-ness. We are losing ourselves.

CHAKRAVARTI: That is the thing. That then we'll understand wonderful qualities we have got. Then in that process you can be a little kind. I told these doctors in Boston -- I had a meeting with all those doctors, they all were specialists. I told them, "You are wonderful. You have got so much knowledge, so much to handle. I know that this is. But my request to you is, be a little human also, with the person whom you are treating. With your patient be a little human. Give that little touch. When you start giving that little touch, it comes to you in a much bigger form." In giving we receive His grace.

MISHLOVE: Well, Sree Chakravarti, this has been such a blessed half hour with you. I appreciate so much your willingness to just speak a simple truth that comes directly from the heart. Thank you so much for being with me.

CHAKRAVARTI: God bless you.

MISHLOVE: God bless you.

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